Judy - Icon or idol?

[jujube]

How many of you have a picture of Judy somewhere in your home and do you worship it? ie. light candles next to it, meditate around it, or call upon Judy as the spirit that moves you?

Or is she just a part of a galaxy of other stars?
Do any of you have a doll and use it as your idol in a shrine?

For me, Judy is confined to her albums and video covers along with many other singers and artists. I have no inclination to frame Judy or hang her up on my wall. I guess maybe you have to be a guy to really love Judy in that way.

I've only ever had one really nice picture of Judy..of her in a garland of flowers. All the others I know Judy is just playing dressups - they never seem to be accurate portraits of the Judy I know with the fake eyelashes and wigs etc. I came across this site called the Judy room and it is a guys' room totally devoted to Judy. maybe everyone on here has Judy rooms, where everything is Judy. Personally that kind of freaks me out but I guess it's a better addiction than drugs or alcohol.

[judydarling]

It would concern me if people were worshipping Judy instead of who they really ought to be worshipping..Judy was a lovely person, but she didn't create anything, she owed everything to her creator...

Likewise I would feel odd if people were putting up posters of me on the walls and bowing down to me. I wonder if Judy ever got a big head about it..I think after 1960 she did, when she was wracked by alcohol and drugs. That's not love, that's captivating a crowd. I think Judy could hypnotise anyone with those big brown eyes, but after the show was over, she went home alone.

Judy once said be the best version of yourself, not a second rate version of anyone else. Later she would contradict herself and give tips to illusionist Jim Bailey on how do act like herself. Then Liza would get confused and even do a stage show with Jim and say it was just like being with Momma. Bizarre.

[bug]

Judy is no idol to me. Not to be worshiped or imitated....

I would say she is an icon. I have tremendous respect for her. I'm not going to try and analyze or judge her personal life. Far from perfect, but I think if you look at Judy beyond her professional work, you'll find a woman who has far more wonderful qualities than bad.

Professionally, she blows me away. And I am still amazed at her popularity and timelessness, even though it has been almost 40 years since she passed away. 'Oz' is almost 70 years old? Amazing.

There must be some current movies that will still be beloved 70 years from now, but I can't think of any off the top of my head.

But my respect and admiration for Judy goes well beyond 'Oz'. Even the movies I don't think were that great, or parts she ended up not even playing ( Annie, for example), I still love watching Judy. There's some kind of connection..........I don't know what it is, but I bet lots of others feel it too, and that's why she remains such an icon. You see a little bit of Judy, and you want to see more.

Do people really worship her, in the sense that she is their savior, or their god? Because that is just weird---- beyond weird. I guess when I hear people use that term, I didn't think the meant literally.

I don't have anything 'Judy' in my home, aside from a few movies, tv shows, and cds. No posters, or framed photos.... although I can think of a few movie posters that would be great to have.

[jujube]

If Judy is an icon, what qualities does she represent?

It has been said Judy is a gay icon..

If I wrack my brains hard enough I still can't see what qualities would make her a 'gay icon.' The very fact that she is a woman who gets up and sings isn't enough. If you look on the internet there is an element of gay worship going on that I find bizarre. But then 'gay' is just bizarre for me anyway.

It is hard to define what makes Judy Judy. I think the element of a lost child and the mix of Judy would do anything to get your attention perhaps. I once read that Joe Manciewicz described what made Judy lovable was that she was like a puppy dog. A pet. You could not help but love her, even when she chewed up your shoes. You feel like she belongs to you, because, like Dorothy, she comes across as practically an orphan.

maybe thats it. I'm sure lots of people have framed pictures of their dogs on their mantlepieces. You feel like when Judy gets into trouble all she needs is proper training and loving owners who won't make her do tricks.

I have several framed photos given to me by a fan who I'm trying hard to shake off. I use the frames, take Judy out of them and put in photos of my family. This fan is partly deaf so..I have to make some concessions here. When the older Judy sings out of tune he can't hear it..I have a feeling he is tone deaf because a normal person wouldn't stand it if Judy sang like that all the time compared to her earlier, beautiful, sweet work.

[judydarling]

If I picture Judy it is always of her when she was young at the quality is innocence. I think as she got older she seemed to me to embody warmth and sincerity. All the other aspects of her personality..the hysterical, emotional side of her, I don't think were in essence, the real Judy.

Susie Boyt does a thorough pyschoanalysis in her book but I think she uses a LOT more words. I would not be surprised if Susie had a little shrine to Judy tucked away somewhere.
That being said I do have a doll, but in no way do I worship it. I just like the dress she wore.

[bug]

icon –noun
1. a picture, image, or other representation.
2. Eastern Church. a representation of some sacred personage, as Christ or a saint or angel, painted usually on a wood surface and venerated itself as sacred.
3. a sign or representation that stands for its object by virtue of a resemblance or analogy to it.
4. Computers. a picture or symbol that appears on a monitor and is used to represent a command, as a file drawer to represent filing.
5. Semiotics. a sign or representation that stands for its object by virtue of a resemblance or analogy to it.

Well, after reading this definition of 'icon', I will have to take it back. Unless she is an icon of entertainment-- and I'm not quite sure what that means.

I don't get, or care for the whole 'gay icon' thing, not just for Judy either, but for anyone or anything that has become 'gay'. We have Judy, and Oz, and rainbows, and Cher, Madonna, and gosh, I don't even know what else. I don't really understand how or why it happens, but it does. When I went to college, about 100 years ago , my room mate and I bought this big inflatable rainbow to hang in our window. We thought it was so cool at the time, but then someone said it meant we were gay. We were so clueless-- and so not gay! But we left if up anyway, because we figured we could like rainbows, no matter what our sexual orientation.

Whoever said Judy was like a dog, or something-- lovable no matter what, but could be trained to do tricks and such.... that 's so sad, and yet I can see it. I imagine she almost felt like that at times. She was expected to perform and to her 'tricks', on demand.

I used to think I would really have liked Judy, if I had known her personally. And that was part of what drew me to her. She looked like a really fun friend to have. But I know that was very superficial of me. And in reality, she was probably hard to get along with. Not that I think she would be mean or pregnant dogy, but it would be so hard for her to be 'normal', considering how she was treated her whole life. The whole puppy think comes to mind again. Not treated badly, for the most part, but treated as property. It would be difficult to have a normal friendship with someone who really doesn't know what one is like.

I do believe Mickey Rooney was the closest thing to a real friend Judy ever had. Probably because they both understood exactly where the other was coming from.

[rainbowgirl]

I think Judy was someone to admire but I think a lot of fan worship is cultivated by the movie industry and publicity machine. Lots of people have stars in their eyes, especially when you are young and impressionable I guess it's only natural to look up to someone but I think some Judy fans do worship her to an unhealthy degree (and it wasn't good for Judy's fragile ego either). Thats why people called it the Judy Cult when Judy had lots of groupies following her around everywhere and imitating her after she left MGM.

I'm not sure about icon (of what?) but like Marilyn is designated sex symbol, Judy seems to be unfortunately labelled as the gay icon. But this is only for gays themselves who label her that, as some kind of code for 'friend of dorothy' or whatever. If your not gay, it wouldn't make any sense. I did some research and back in the day when nobody dared come out of the closet, that was their code word.

Now onto rainbows! I've always called myself rainbowgirl, and in no way does it mean I represent the LBTG contingent. That they have chosen the rainbow as a symbol of hope is nice, but if you looked in the Rainbow News, you'd find absolutely nothing to do with LBTG and everything to do with New Age philosophy. Personally I regard it as a symbol of changeable weather. I would have named myself 'weathergirl' but I thought rainbowgirl was more appropriate for a Judy forum.

I think Judy would have been as mystified or perhaps amused by the secret code language thats been sprung up about her name. I mean personally I think it is silly to take things and make things symbolise something completely different and confuse everyone...its a bit too freudian for me. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.. and a spade is just a spade.

If Judy Garland means anything its a name that was invented to look good on a marquee... like 'Vicki Lester' was for Esther Blodgett. I'm sure Frances Ethel Gumm had a tough time living it down.

[bogart]

That Judy is an icon or idol is basically overrated by anyone who works in the entertainment industry trying to sell records, movies, whatever. Anyone who is a star and has a following is labelled an icon/idol.

Remember people who are fans are mostly prepubescent teens who grow up looking for someone just like them in the entertainment world. Judy had her own idols - Robert Taylor (not Clark Gable) was one.

Judy effectively parodied this fan worship in her song 'Dear Mr Gable' which she sang to a picture of Clark Gable. He must have cringed when she sings he's not like a real actor at all. He later told her she spoiled everyone of his birthdays when they dragged her out to sing that song.

[judydarling]

I don't like the idea that Judy is an Idol because of seeing shows like American Idol and how awful and competitive they are.

Once you get to the top, it's cold and lonely.