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Post by feedtheflame on Jul 8, 2007 0:35:42 GMT -5
Hmm...this is quite a heavy topic but I might as well add my two cents too.
I think many people in her life could have had a hand in her undoing. Every time she'd get ready to relax on vacation they'd summon her back for a movie and she'd get hooked on pills again. They worked her all the time and used drugs to keep her going and used drugs to get her to stop. They paired her with director's she couldn't work with, like Busby Burkly (sp?) which did not help her working situations.
Everyone around her was an enabler. Instead of being around someone who would bring out the best in her and strive to help her become healthy, she was surrounded with mostly weak people who had other motives it seemed than caring for her.
I don't know if someone killed her, but I believe she didn't want to die. She tried to overcome, but got no support and just had too much to deal with.
Nonetheless it is sad she had to go so soon, truly before her time of touching people through her work was over.
It's late so I hope what I said made some sense.
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Post by jujube on Jul 11, 2007 22:08:02 GMT -5
Hate to bring it all up again but Lorna did write in her memoirs that she blamed Mickey for Judy's death, then herself for not being around..but even she knew she was one of the biggest enablers Judy had..filling Judy's pills with sugar and watering down her drinks etc. She didn't have the strength to say to her mum NO. I don't want you around until you come off your addictions. Then again she was only a mere child.
She was actually forced to flee her own mother when her behaviour got out of control. EVERYone had their own motives for 'helping' Judy. There's this story actually a book put out by one of the biggest rattiest users of Judy..'heartbreaker' who used Judy to sell his own songs. Nobody had Judy's best interests at heart. Not even her own mother in the end which is the biggest shame.
Question>>did Judy have any godparents? I know that Liza had Kay Thompson so am wondering if Judy had any protectors. Roger Edens was one. Mort Lindsay maybe another. It's hard to know who Judy's real friends were.
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Post by Ray on Jul 11, 2007 23:38:25 GMT -5
Probably the closest person to a god parent was Marc Rabwin, husband of Marcella. He had been a friend of Frank Gumm's, had brought Judy into the world, was in Hollywood when Judy got her start at MGM. Actually, Judy had a lot of long time friends who really cared about Judy but she no longer lived in Hollywood. Judy was always a very mercurial person in the best of times. In the last few years Judy became more and more estranged from all who knew and loved her, even her beloved children. A lot of people like Mickey Rooney later said after her death, "If we had only known...maybe we could have helped her." Actually, all of Judy's old time Hollywood friends were livng and working all over the world. They were simply too busy to keep up with old friends! Have you ever worked at a place for a few years and formed really close attachments with coworkers? Then when you move on, you eventually lose touch. Life is like that. In showbusiness it's even more so. Judy was moving from concert to concert, city to city. Most of her old friends were doing the same thing.
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Post by jujube on Jul 12, 2007 16:16:49 GMT -5
That's right. In one doco I think Marcella was talking about how Marc saved Judy from being aborted.
It breaks your heart to hear stuff like that.
Just on the subject of friends..I heard Judy had a dog in the end..called Brandy. I'm not sure he was still with her when she died.
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Post by Ray on Jul 13, 2007 1:50:13 GMT -5
Yeah, she loved animals but never had time to really bond with one. Even at MGM, she worked at least 6 day weeks, 15hrdays, usually her maid would actually care for the dog. After 1950, she was constantly going on the road for yet another concert, benefit, etc.I remember reading that during her early 1960-61 tour (culmanating in the great Carnegie Hall concerts) she had just played Chapel Hill, N.C., and apparently couldn't sleep so she went on this long, early moring walk through a large park. One of her entourage woke up and realized she wasn't in her bed. Eventaully she comes strolling in with some stray mutt she had met in the park. The writer said she was covered in a light mist of early morning dew and looked like 13-year-old mischevious child and said brightly, "Look who I found!!!" Unfortunately she couldn't take the dog; she was told the animal's rightful owner had been found....the tour moved on without the dog. Supposedly Judy never could believe she was a "Living Legend"...."If I'm such a legend then why am I so lonely all the time!" she reportedly once quipped.
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Post by caroline on Jul 13, 2007 6:07:34 GMT -5
I think everyone who ever had anything to do with her would have had a hand in it (some more so than others) because all she needed was to be loved and everyone left her.
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Post by moocow on Jul 13, 2007 14:03:34 GMT -5
I don't understand how Judy thought that no one loved her and cared for her... what about her loyal fans? Surely she knew that we would always be there for her no matter what she did. If only we could go back and just let her know every time she needed re-assurance.
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Post by Ray on Jul 13, 2007 23:06:00 GMT -5
When in front of an audience Judy could do no wrong. She bathed in the love. When it ended there was Judy, alone, sometimes dejected. A good while back I read that on the night of her great Carneigie Hall triumph, she fell into a deep depression. Judy's was a life filled with great heights and terrible lows. Someone once said of Judy, "Everytime she sang she died a little bit..." At least we have her recordings. The more I read about Judy, the more I believe she truly tried to live in the present moment. Everyone should learn to live in the here and now.
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Post by judydarling on Jul 14, 2007 0:08:10 GMT -5
Yes she once said something about the sound of applause dying into a lonely shutter flapping in the breeze..she needed everything in that moment. Once she went home, alone and had to sleep by herself she felt that nobody loved her. She needed to be held..like we all want to be held. And I don't mean in a sexual way just to be close to someone.
For all the fans in the world she would swap for just someone who really needed her like she needed that one person. Reciprocation maybe that's the word. I don't think she ever found true love like that in her many relationships with men, well not for a long time. I think that's why she doted in Joey..she could just hold on to him.
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Post by jujube on Jul 16, 2007 21:37:03 GMT -5
going back to what you said earlier Ray about Marcella spreading gossip..that Franks father was gay and also knowing that Judy came close to being aborted etc. Why would she spread such harmful gossip if it wasn't true?
Was she trying to destroy Judy and Judy's family? Or Judy's memory? I don't understand.
Another thing I don't understand is why 'they' (Not sure who 'they' are, tv executives or something) tried to sabotage Judy's show. I read that in the book 'Rainbow's End.' That really demoralised Judy and I think was a major factor in her early demise.
Even though we know Judy's death was classed as an accidental overdose..the facts surrounding Judy Garland's life are still mysterious enough to warrant a complete investigation, not to find blame, but to understand how a wonderful woman like Judy could die so young. I don't think it was because she was intrinsically weak..or maybe it was? I never saw her alive..was she as fragile as she appeared?
The weird thing is that her mother, her sisters and her mother all met tragic ends save for Virginia I think.
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Post by leonard on Jul 16, 2007 23:11:35 GMT -5
Ray was merely repeating what various Judy biographers have said about Marcella. She was getting television interviews because of these "new" revelations. Also, by inserting them in various newer books, Marcella undoubtedly got a "fee" from the authors/publishers. Marcella also became an "expert" about the long dead Jean Harlow and Greta Garbo, after their deaths. If her husband, Marc Rabwin, Judy's llivelong physician and confident, had still been alive he would never have allowed her to "reveal" this stuff, whether true or not.
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Post by jujube on Jul 17, 2007 20:44:20 GMT -5
Ah well I think it's up to each individual to decide what to think on that score. But I already know what I think. I'm just not going to bother putting it here in case I get stoned by the John Fricke brigade.
Yes I'm a coward boo hooo. What I really need is COURAGE. If Americans weren't so busy being sickly sarcastic they might actually see there IS more than one side to the story. Sorry to generalise about but I believe this to be the case on all matters.
Thanks for that Leonard.
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Post by judydarling on Jul 17, 2007 20:59:24 GMT -5
Marcella probably knew everything. I used to have a friend who's parents were both doctors, and she worked as a medical receptionist for them on her summer holidays, and so knew the private details of all her patients. That's a very important private and confidential job. Marcella was probably in the same position. Something this BIG, she had to tell somebody or it would have eaten her up alive.
Call me a liar if you want, but I can pretty much figure it all out now.
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Post by rainbowgirl on Jul 19, 2007 1:54:59 GMT -5
the freaky weird fans killed her because they wanted too much from her.
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Post by moocow on Jul 19, 2007 11:08:08 GMT -5
I agree, rainbowgirl, some fans were to demanding, but maybe the media and MGM were partly to blame, for prying into her private affairs. They didn't quite seem to realize that Judy just wanted a bit of privacy and rest sometimes. For the media, as it is now, Judy had to look perfect sound perfect and not do anything wrong EVER, or it was posted on the front of every newspaper. I think this drove her insane, as she could never just BE who she wanted to be, so she turned to drugs and drink to help her through, as it would do to anyone. I also agree with Jayme, as maybe the guilt from her mother's death killed her, or perhaps Judy thought she failed Ethel while she was alive, so after she died she worked extra hard for her, which pushed her to the edge too.
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